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View Full Version : sad state for bison baseball?



SirHinn
10-18-2007, 06:47 AM
I know a guy who recently decided he was going to try on for the baseball team this year. He tried to try out last year, but of course the coach wouldn't even look at him or give him a chance. Anyways, he hadn't actually played college baseball since his freshman season in which he played at division 3 St. Thomas. After tryouts, he was informed he made the team and would most likely be one of the starting outfielders. My question is how sad is it that a walk on can not only make the team, but potentially start. How sad is it that the previous head coach wouldn't even give this guy a chance as well as a walk on just randomely making the team and starting?

bisonball
10-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Take into consideration that the Bison lost a starting senior centerfielder, a starting rightfielder which transferred, and a top freshman outfielder who decided to hang up his cleats. Also, two of the Bison OF's are redshirt freshman.

O-Rizzle 4-Shizzle
10-18-2007, 04:54 PM
This kid may be a diamond in the rough, so maybe him getting a spot on the roster is a good thing. The thing about baseball (at such a young age) is that one intrinsic part of a man's game is the differential between a bench player and a hall of fame type of player. A guy who can field balls that most guys cant field, or a hitter who is patient or can drive opposite field, or a base stealer, a guy who can fire a rocket from deep center to home plate on a deep pop up, etc. You add any of those traits to a guy who is an average player, and you have a "GAME CHANGER" on your roster. So the fact that he didn't make the cut, than later made the cut for a starting spot is not only a potentially good thing, but a natural part of the process for players who are still young enough to be learning the game.

Only time will tell, but it can be great. In college basketball walk ons can sometimes change a season, baseball is even more strategic from chronological point of view, so this could add up if he has a "GAME CHANGING" ability about him.

bisonpride2k
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Two reasons.

#1- The roster was expanded by the athletic director from 32 to 36 which sould allow for more walk ons and freshman to make the team and develop. It was a major problem that McLeod was forced to deal with when Taylor took over as athletic director. Not only was he not given enough scholarships to compete but was taken away 4 roster spots where he had the ability to develop players who were not quite at the level to compete right away which was needed at 32. Players like Matt Mann (schools all time leading hitter), Brandon Olson (schools all time leader in tripples), and Charles Magadanez (made maybe 4 errors his whole career at 2B) were all project players that would have been numbers casualties had they arrived after 2002. Those three worked their butts off and became great players after a year of redshirting. No more then 2-3 players were able to redshirt with the smaller roster limit as injuries can turn that roster from 32 to 28-29 or less in a hurry.

#2- Plecki graduated (and can never be replaced!), Otto transfered, and with the departure of Mossey, Langlais will slide to SS from third which moves in starting LF Beese to third base meaning there will be three new regular starting outfielders. Billy "the goose" Gazich will probably fill RF and Eckermans will probably fill CF, leaving LF up for grabs.

I know who you are refering to and there was no space for him on that roster until this year. Hate to say it because he is a good player but he was not better then the 6 other outfielders on the roster. He doesnt bring a PLUS tool (arm, speed, hitting, hitting for power, defense) all average. However he doesnt have any killer weak spots which makes him a solid average player. But, in comparison to other DI players who NDSU will face, he would be at the bottom of average if not below average.

HS players from ND need to be far and above the rest to make a difference in DI. Example... Jake Laber (if he has a break out year), Phil and Charlie Shirek, Darrin Erstad. You look at how dominating a player Brian Erstad was from Jamestown and he was a middle of the road player for Wichita State. It seriously is a whole different level.

RodentiaX
10-18-2007, 06:56 PM
It may not be so sad, you could look at it as a real steal. Sometimes you find gems. It's not as if he is just some guy wandering onto the field having played a little whiffleball.

SirHinn
10-19-2007, 06:05 AM
Two reasons.

#1- The roster was expanded by the athletic director from 32 to 36 which sould allow for more walk ons and freshman to make the team and develop. It was a major problem that McLeod was forced to deal with when Taylor took over as athletic director. Not only was he not given enough scholarships to compete but was taken away 4 roster spots where he had the ability to develop players who were not quite at the level to compete right away which was needed at 32. Players like Matt Mann (schools all time leading hitter), Brandon Olson (schools all time leader in tripples), and Charles Magadanez (made maybe 4 errors his whole career at 2B) were all project players that would have been numbers casualties had they arrived after 2002. Those three worked their butts off and became great players after a year of redshirting. No more then 2-3 players were able to redshirt with the smaller roster limit as injuries can turn that roster from 32 to 28-29 or less in a hurry.

#2- Plecki graduated (and can never be replaced!), Otto transfered, and with the departure of Mossey, Langlais will slide to SS from third which moves in starting LF Beese to third base meaning there will be three new regular starting outfielders. Billy "the goose" Gazich will probably fill RF and Eckermans will probably fill CF, leaving LF up for grabs.

I know who you are refering to and there was no space for him on that roster until this year. Hate to say it because he is a good player but he was not better then the 6 other outfielders on the roster. He doesnt bring a PLUS tool (arm, speed, hitting, hitting for power, defense) all average. However he doesnt have any killer weak spots which makes him a solid average player. But, in comparison to other DI players who NDSU will face, he would be at the bottom of average if not below average.

HS players from ND need to be far and above the rest to make a difference in DI. Example... Jake Laber (if he has a break out year), Phil and Charlie Shirek, Darrin Erstad. You look at how dominating a player Brian Erstad was from Jamestown and he was a middle of the road player for Wichita State. It seriously is a whole different level.

No spots for him on the roster until this year?? Mitch told him not to even tryout for the team because he had zero chance of making the team according to the ex coach. He wasn't even being looked at outfield until halfway through tryouts this year. He was actually a really good pitcher in highschool as well as in college. I apologize too, he actually played at Hamline University for his first year after highschool. I'm not taking away anything from his ability because I think he was a really good player but to go from a walk on not being able to tryout to being a potential starter is kind of sad in my eyes. Was Mitch just really that bad at evaluating talent? Do players from ND have to be far and above the rest to get a look at from NDSU considering their talent level as is right now? I know NDSU didn't even go after Jake Laber really hard considering they thought he would just end up there.

bisonpride2k
10-19-2007, 04:05 PM
No spots for him on the roster until this year?? Mitch told him not to even tryout for the team because he had zero chance of making the team according to the ex coach. He wasn't even being looked at outfield until halfway through tryouts this year. He was actually a really good pitcher in highschool as well as in college. I apologize too, he actually played at Hamline University for his first year after highschool. I'm not taking away anything from his ability because I think he was a really good player but to go from a walk on not being able to tryout to being a potential starter is kind of sad in my eyes. Was Mitch just really that bad at evaluating talent? Do players from ND have to be far and above the rest to get a look at from NDSU considering their talent level as is right now? I know NDSU didn't even go after Jake Laber really hard considering they thought he would just end up there.

The one thing Mitch was with high school kids was completely honest. He would rather see a kid go somewhere to play and say good for him, then feed them a line of BS and then cut them when they are in school. At the time there was no room for him at all either as an outfielder or a pitcher. In 2005, there was not a pitcher on the team that threw under 85 miles per hour with the exception of a DII Left handed hold over throwing 81. The player you are refering to threw 79-81 miles per hour his senior year. To pitch at the DI level you need to absolutely DOMINATE ND high school and Legion baseball. Not just throw one no hitter. Look at the stats of Jake Laber at NDSU. He completely dominated his last year of HS and Legion but had yet to produce an above .500 record (yes not all his fault). There are numerous players on this years team that would have not made the team in years past. Partly because of players transfering and leaving the program. As far as being a possible starter, Because of the roster limits if you make the team you are automatically a possible starter. This isnt basketball or football where there is an abundance of reserves. There are 16 players who play a position and 13 players who pitch that usually do not redshirt. So that leaves you with 9 starters, and 7 reserves- 2 back up catchers, 1 back up 1B, 2 back up MI, 1 back up 3B, and 1 or 2 back up outfielders (more then likely a catcher or infielder also plays outfield). All of which could and will start over the course of a three or four game series. Outfielders are a dime a dozen. Unless you hit with alot of power or have a cannon arm and/or speed your not a DI player. They can easily convert a speedy skilled middle infielder into an outfielder which makes him a valuable utility player. Its just the nature of the beast.

jeffdaryl3rd
10-20-2007, 08:50 AM
I'll agree that Mitch absolutely would have rather had a kid go somewhere else and play than come to NDSU and not play baseball. He was always a real class act about that and despite what the team's record might indicate the last few years he was a good talent evaluator. A lot of guys the last few years who for whatever reason just didn't stay with the program for their full term and that really hurt in terms of depth and talent. I haven't seen the player in question, but I'd say that it sounds like he was just facing a crowded outfield situation last year and the coaches are going to go with the guys they recruited in that situation. And as far as velocity goes, vastly over rated. Take a look at his guys numbers from this season. Carolina League (Hi-A) pitcher of the year, sits 77-79.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Rowdy%20Hardy&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=503228

bisonpride2k
10-22-2007, 01:37 AM
Good point about the velocity, which is very true. However as you know, if you dont have the velocity your location must be outstanding and be able to throw all three pitches for a strike and have lots of movement.

jeffdaryl3rd
10-22-2007, 07:21 AM
Or really, just throw it where you want it. Velocity and movement help you get away with stuff, but if you know how to pitch, move a hitters eyes and set guys up and can hit spots velocity doesn't necessarily matter that much. Of course, it is hard to scout those things and those are typically not things HS or even some college or pro guys do real well, so getting high velocity guys in and trying to shape them is usually your best bet development wise. Whatever happens I just hope the new staff gets some guys on board who become top notch players and that they can right the ship.

Overgrown
11-21-2007, 02:48 PM
No offense to that walk-on kid, but his time in the outfield will be limited. first of all word on the street is Otto is comin back for the spring semester. There's an outfield spot, the goose is back in town, and mr kyle harrison comes to the table as well with good arm and great speed. They took so many walk-ons due to the face of a small bull-pen this year, kids came in and quit.