New arena story

[tony]

Forum story on three possibilities for the new arena (http://www.in-forum.com/News/articles/179324)

One option in the SE corner and two options are set just to the south of the FargoDome. The FargoDome wanted the guys who came up with the "southeast option" to do horseshoe seating version (future expansion?).

Anyway, 6000 seats in a new arena with room for possible expansion sounds pretty sweet, but we won't know for sure if that's what they have in mind until the final versions come out in November.

Exciting times in North Dakota.

Newest story: Plans revealed (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=179852&section=news)

[bisonmike2]

if they take away parking spots they need to replace them somehow especially with attendance rising. raze dacotah field and turn it into a parking lot. Or NDSU has a ton of land going toward the interstate create a parking lot there and run shuttle buses to and fro before and after games. It's not ideal but it could work. They also need to eliminate the alcohol restriction to the one lot. open up alcohol to all lots. yes I know it was meant to prevent minors from drinking but additional Police patrols can do that. I think the fans have proven that they are responsible enough that they don't have to be confined to one area.

[UTH]

raze dacotah field and turn it into a parking lot. They also need to eliminate the alcohol restriction to the one lot. open up alcohol to all lots. yes I know it was meant to prevent minors from drinking but additional Police patrols can do that. I think the fans have proven that they are responsible enough that they don't have to be confined to one area.

Raze most of Dacotah Field, leaving a parking lot and a monument to the glory and tradition of years gone by. Make that the primary tailgating parking lot.

[roadwarrior]

The cost estimate of $30 million is very encouraging because the initial guesses were upwards of $45M. This will make it much easier to get done.

[Herd Mentality]

I believe you'd just see paving of the grass lot. If properly paved and striped it would add enough spaces to make up for the increased attendance and the parking that would be taken up.

I'm for razing Dacotah field...It breaks my heart to look at what it looks like now. Make the land into something useful.

[Gully]

The cost estimate of $30 million is very encouraging because the initial guesses were upwards of $45M. This will make it much easier to get done.

Good point Road, I had forgotten the initial estimates were so much higher. Any idea why it would change so much? Anyone have a gut feel on if this will actually get pushed through?

[bisonmike2]

Raze most of Dacotah Field, leaving a parking lot and a monument to the glory and tradition of years gone by. Make that the primary tailgating parking lot.

I like that idea. We need a huge bison statue outside of the dome like the one that used to be outside of the BSA, but bigger. That's gone now isn't it?

[Trim]

I believe you'd just see paving of the grass lot. If properly paved and striped it would add enough spaces to make up for the increased attendance and the parking that would be taken up.

That probably makes sense, but dang, me and the boy have fun rolling around playing football in the grass.

[AKBison]

Maybe its only me but the thought of a horseshoe basketball arena has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Unless of course they are leaving one end open to cut down on cost with a future expansion in mind. However, I doubt that is the case here, it sounds more like FFD authority is throwing the city a bone to "prove" this isn't a facility just for NDSU.

[bisonmike2]

Maybe its only me but the thought of a horseshoe basketball arena has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Unless of course they are leaving one end open to cut down on cost with a future expansion in mind. However, I doubt that is the case here, it sounds more like FFD authority is throwing the city a bone to "prove" this isn't a facility just for NDSU.

I'm thinking the horsehoe idea isn't the best but it does provide the option to expand. Plus it's better than our current situation. Hell they can make it in the shape of a rainbow, four leaf clover or marshmellow stars for all I care. I just want our b-ball team out of the bsa.

[tony]

Raze most of Dacotah Field, leaving a parking lot and a monument to the glory and tradition of years gone by. Make that the primary tailgating parking lot.

Rep points for that one! The BSA will probably expand a little into that but if they painted the new lot green and put white stripes on it with a Bison logo... well, I'd pay some serious money to tailgate on the Dacotah Field Lot

[AKBison]

Did a little research and here is UVA's horseshoe style arena. I have changed my mind, Its not to bad. I couldn't figure out a way to past the image, maybe someone else can?

https://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/university_virginia/

[roadwarrior]

A horseshoe seating shape could very well make it much easier for events other than basketball to be held in the arena. And in the end, the multi purpose function is what is going to get this thing built.

[bisonaudit]

Wasn't the plan to move the practice fields to the current Dakotah field location?

[Gully]

I suppose the horseshoe end could have rather large portable bleachers so it would at least fill it in a little bit. In any event, it would have to be an improvement over the BSA.

[roadwarrior]

Wasn't the plan to move the practice fields to the current Dakotah field location?

Maybe some day in the future, but not soon.

[Go_Herd]

Did a little research and here is UVA's horseshoe style arena. I have changed my mind, Its not to bad. I couldn't figure out a way to past the image, maybe someone else can?

https://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/university_virginia/

that looks pretty bad@ss if you ask me

[TAILG8R]

I couldn't figure out a way to past the image, maybe someone else can?

Here you go:
http://www.crazycues.com/horse_shoe.jpg

[bisonaudit]

John Paul Jones Arena is definately money. 16,000 seats. 20 suites. Club seating on the second level behind the one basket. Student seating on the movable section behind that basket as well as 2/3 of the lower bowl behind the benches and two adjoining sections in the upper deck. The other 1/3 of the lower bowl on that side and the rest of the lower tier is 'Teammaker' seating. The student and Teammaker seats are configured so that the kids can stand as much as they want. Also premium court side seats on the permanent end and along the sideline opposite the benches. Money, Money, Money!

[AKBison]

Here you go:
http://www.crazycues.com/horse_shoe.jpg

Thanks for posting that for me. I would imagine if we are looking at a 6-7000 seat arena ours would be just the lower bowl. Still would be damn fine and better than what we have.I wonder if they are thinking about using the horseshoe design so that it can but right up against the current FFD South Wall. Perhaps thats where the money savings are coming from?

[99Bison]

Thanks for posting that for me. I would imagine if we are looking at a 6-7000 seat arena ours would be just the lower bowl. Still would be damn fine and better than what we have.I wonder if they are thinking about using the horseshoe design so that it can but right up against the current FFD South Wall. Perhaps were the money savings are coming from?

As someone else stated, probably due to the fact that it's a better venue for concerts and other events with that flat side.

[SDbison]

6000 capacity is way too small to start. The BSA can currently seat that many. 7000 to 8000 with capacity to expand is more appropriate. Don't want to limit NDSU like the Fargodome is now experiencing. Did they build the dome for 12,000 to 15,000 capacity? Those were the attendance numbers for football back in the late 1980's. 6000 is pathetic.

[56BISON73]

We were drawing 14,000 fans in the late 60s early 70s. PL

[TAILG8R]

I would imagine if we are looking at a 6-7000 seat arena ours would be just the lower bowl.

Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.crazycues.com/arena2.jpg

[jeffdaryl3rd]

While 6,000 sounds too small, it doesn't pay to make it too big, because we can play some B-ball games in the FargoDome as well.

[Greenie]

As RoadWarrior alluded to...the master facility plans have 2 football practice fields (running North/South) in the place of Dacotah Field. A new soccer game/practice facility is located where the current FB practice fields are located.

My hunch is that both the FargoDome addition + BSA renovation will happen. BSA is a done deal, just a matter of how much renovating will happen at once ($$$).

[tony]

As RoadWarrior alluded to...the master facility plans have 2 football practice fields (running North/South) in the place of Dacotah Field. A new soccer game/practice facility is located where the current FB practice fields are located.

My hunch is that both the FargoDome addition + BSA renovation will happen. BSA is a done deal, just a matter of how much renovating will happen at once ($$$).

I do like the idea of the practice fields closer to the Dome and BSA - that makes a lot of sense.

[sambini]

As RoadWarrior alluded to...the master facility plans have 2 football practice fields (running North/South) in the place of Dacotah Field. A new soccer game/practice facility is located where the current FB practice fields are located.

My hunch is that both the FargoDome addition + BSA renovation will happen. BSA is a done deal, just a matter of how much renovating will happen at once ($$$). Thanks Greenie+++

[Greenie]

While 6,000 sounds too small, it doesn't pay to make it too big, because we can play some B-ball games in the FargoDome as well.

Agreed. The 6000 seat horseshoe configuration lends itself to a more flexibile multi-purpose facility that the Fargodome authority and 4/5 of the City Commissioners approve of. 6000 seat arena's pricetag is smaller and has a better chance of getting built than a larger arena.

[sambini]

Make it a hot ticket ...

[BisBison]

I have no problem with 6,000. Let's get it built and start getting sellouts. Then sellouts + TV. Just like this year's football team. Bigger games can go into the main arena.

[99Bison]

I have no problem with 6,000. Let's get it built and start getting sellouts. Then sellouts + TV. Just like this year's football team. Bigger games can go into the main arena.

Not much need to have a bigger arena really, many comparable arena's are this size, raise ticket prices, have on TV, need to have a cozy loud atmostphere for BB games.

[NDSUstudent]

If 6000 is good enough for Gonzaga why can't it be good enough for NDSU? I will admit I would love for it to be 7-8k but lets face it a 6k seat new arena beats the hell out of playing in the BSA.

[SDbison]

If 6000 is good enough for Gonzaga why can't it be good enough for NDSU? I will admit I would love for it to be 7-8k but lets face it a 6k seat new arena beats the hell out of playing in the BSA.
BSA can already hold more than 6000. Fine, 6000 is great, its awesome!
I am sure someone with a growing family would trade in their yugo for a two seat corvette. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I am not saying build a 9 or 10 thousand seat arena. But 6000? Seems the dome authority will get their way for a small concert venue, but again NDSU will get screwed with a facility with little or no expansion room. Just like the dome for football. How much more would it cost to start out with a 7000 to 7500 capacity? Maybe room to expand by 1500 or 2500 later.

[SDbison]

If 6000 is good enough for Gonzaga why can't it be good enough for NDSU? I will admit I would love for it to be 7-8k but lets face it a 6k seat new arena beats the hell out of playing in the BSA.
How big is Gonzaga (How many students, Alumni)?

[NDSUstudent]

BSA can already hold more than 6000. Fine, 6000 is great, its awesome!
I am sure someone with a growing family would trade in their yugo for a two seat corvette. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I am not saying build a 9 or 10 thousand seat arena. But 6000? Seems the dome authority will get their way for a small concert venue, but again NDSU will get screwed with a facility with little or no expansion room. Just like the dome for football. How much more would it cost to start out with a 7000 to 7500 capacity? Maybe room to expand by 1500 or 2500 later.

SD, I said I want 7-8k but I also can't stand the BSA. If it comes between having 6k seats or no arena, I'll take the 6k seats every time.

[NDSUstudent]

How big is Gonzaga (How many students, Alumni)?

6k+ studnets
35k+ alumni
Metro Population of Spokane 417K

[NDSUstudent]

UNI also just built a new arena...

6.5k seats
12.3K students
???? Alumni
196K Cedar Rapids Metro Population

[SDbison]

UNI also just built a new arena...

6.5k seats
12.3K students
???? Alumni
196K Cedar Rapids Metro Population
OK then, NDSU should build about a 6500 to 7000 seat arena to start.
Equal to, or slightly better than a comparable peer institution.

[NDSUstudent]

OK then, NDSU should build about a 6500 to 7000 seat arena to start.
Equal to, or slightly better than a comparable peer institution.

I'm with you SD, I hope NDSU pushes for 6.5-7k even if it means throwing in a few more $$$. Hopefully that is what happens but for the time being I just really want NDSU hoops out of the BSA.

[TheDoctor]

Sounds good. Lets also work on selling out the BSA more than once while we still have it as well. ;)

[bisonaudit]

Galen Center in LA. New home of USC Trojans. 10,260 seats. It's in the round seating but the upper deck is open on one end so I think it still works as a reference regarding what's possible.

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/facilities/usc-galen-center.html

[sambini]

Thanks for the link Bisonaudit++++

[Go_Herd]

So if or when this arena gets built. What do we do with Benson Bunker Fieldhouse?

Can we finally raze that eyesore to the ground and put something worthwhile there?

[roadwarrior]

BBF is getting an upgrade. I don't think of it as an eyesore. The old Festival Hall defines an eyesore.

[99Bison]

BBF is getting an upgrade. I don't think of it as an eyesore. The old Festival Hall defines an eyesore.

Agreed, BB is actually a very fun VB arena.

[imabison]

Sounds good. Lets also work on selling out the BSA more than once while we still have it as well. ;)
Its $ 175.00 for both Womens and Mens Basketball Season tickets as a combo buy. What is that about $ 6.25 a night average price? 28 games total.

Get with the program, I got mine, have you got yours??

WILL YOU BE THERE!!!!!!!

[sambini]

BBF is getting an upgrade. I don't think of it as an eyesore. The old Festival Hall defines an eyesore.
Right on Road+++

[Hammersmith]

BBF is getting an upgrade. I don't think of it as an eyesore. The old Festival Hall defines an eyesore.

Agreed. It's one of the eight buildings on campus worth keeping.

[TheBisonator]

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/fargodome1.jpg

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/fargodome3.jpg

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/1003%20Fargodome%20Blueprint%20copy.jpg

STORY:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=179852&section=news

[Swany]

This is the headline in today's Forum: Dome designs revealed. You can view the story by clicking here (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=179852&section=news).

Without knowing too many of the particulars, what are your initial thoughts?

[sambini]

Thanks Swany, looks good++

[sambini]

Thanks Bisonator+++ I like the design++

[99Bison]

Awesome looking!

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/1003%20Fargodome%20Blueprint%20copy.jpg
http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/1003%20Fargodome%20Blueprint%20copy.jpg


http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/fargodome1.jpg


http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/fargodome3.jpg
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/full_photo.cfm?id=202465

[Hammersmith]

I like the look of the expansion. It's a nice blend of the existing brick architecture without looking like a brick stuck to a larger brick. I really like the windows around the roofline. I can see how the stage area can be linked into the existing underground storage area; probably a good idea. The way it connects into the main lobby is also pretty nice for events that use the conference spaces, while the new lobby will be great for arena-only events.

I am a little concerned about the size. There's a comment about expandable seating, but I don't know if they mean the arena is capable of later expansion, or just that the proposed seating can be collapsed for floor events. 6,011 is fine for now, but I wouldn't want to be locked into it for 25 years or more. BTW, last year's average MBB/WBB attendance was 2,625/1,391.

It does look like this arena could set the stage for more expansions in the future. I could see a full conference center added in the area straight south of the main facility; nestled right between the buildings. I could also see the curve of the new arena/lobby addition swing around to the north side of the FD if a small/medium amount of space is needed for some reason. Offices, food service, etc.

All in all, if there's a possibility of future BB expansion, I love it. If not... I'm not convinced.


edit: I think this roof could be raised far easier than the FD or the BSA. Maybe a second level is possible? There also seems to be some tan space on the blueprints between the top of the seating and the walls. Maybe it is expandible. I'll wait until I hear from the architects/FD Authority before I get my hopes too high.

[CaBisonFan]

This is the headline in today's Forum: Dome designs revealed. You can view the story by clicking here (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=179852&section=news).

Without knowing too many of the particulars, what are your initial thoughts?


Thanks Swany...but 6,000 is too small. We need a real basketball arena with about 9,000 capacity...like SDSU. Have you ever seen Frost Arena in Brookings? That's what a DI facility needs to be like.

[CaBisonFan]

Has anyone ever been to SDSU's Frost Arena?

That's a DI arena. It's beautiful.

It holds 9,000 people.

I used to live there. The Wabbits filled it once or twice a year...and many other nights it was pretty full. 7 or 8 thousand was normal, even in the boring old NCC. Brookings has about 15 or 20 thousand people in it. How big is Fargo-Moorhead now?

When teams like Oral Roberts, Gonzaga, Iowa State, Kansas State, Iowa, and others come to town once in a while...6,000 won't be even close to big enough.

Move to the dome for those games you say? No!

Domes are lousy home-court advantages. There 'is' no advantage. Everything is different. The depth perception on the basket is one of the biggest factors in a home court...not to mention an intimate crowd...which domes can't supply.

This will be a waste of 30 million dollars. People will regret it.

The Bison need a true DI facility to attract DI recruits. They need a big arena with a DI feel. If the recruits come, and great teams come, the fans will most definitely come.

Rethink this one Bison fans. If you want Bison basketball to continue its climb up the DI ladder, you need a BASKETBALL ARENA near the dome...not an add-on that will be too small.

People are thinking way too small on this one. Write it down.

[chuckles]

ah yes...not to shabby...and it doesn't endanger the west lots either!!!!! But the 6,000 number seems a little small....if they're going to do it, they better do it right. How many years will it be until our basektball program takes off and we will be left selling "standing room only" tickets. Lets to it and lets do it right!!!!

[Hammersmith]

We might be better served by consolidating these threads, but...

If the foundation of this building is designed to handle a future expansion, then I don't mind 6,000 to start out with if it keeps the total cost around $30M. The more I look at the drawings, the more I'm convinced this design could grow to 9,000 or 10,000. The outer walls of the building seem to be set far enough back to allow a second concourse to be built and stairways to access it. The roof is free standing on steel trusses so the windows could be removed and the roof jacked up. I don't think a second level could be built over the stage or the new lobby, but I bet you could put one in on each long side. I'm reserving my judgement until I hear a confirmed yes or no from the architects.

[tony]

Note: I've consolidated four or five threads on three different forums into one. Hope that doesn't confuse people. Now on with the posting...

--------------------------------

This house is freaking sweet! Too bad we didn't get a peek at the other two designs. This design preserves the south entrance (the other two do not) and they've made it easier for the main entrance of the FargoDome to act as the main entrance to the MiniDome. I also love the glass. I'd love to watch a basketball game on some crystal clear winter night.

About the size - there are four main factors. First, the FargoDome folks want something to handle smaller events. Make it too big and it defeats their main purpose. Second, scarcity and exclusivity fuel demand. Make seating for 6000 and the odds of selling out are that much greater. Make it too big and I think the attendance on less desirable dates will drop. Third, a jewel-box is better than a pole barn. Fourth, every million added to this project makes it that much less likely that it will ever get off the drawing board.

No matter how big the game, I'd prefer them all to be in this arena. That's what TV is for.

That said, if it could expand without structural changes, that'd be great. However, this particular design does look like it might handle a lot of SRO tickets (as a point of reference, Duke used to have seating for 8800 but SRO of 12000).

[Gully]

Fourth, every million added to this project makes it that much less likely that it will ever get off the drawing board.


That is the best point...this looks feasible and is likely to happen. If it gets too extravagent then some of you better start writing checks.

[Bison bison]

so there would be no separated concourse around the arena?

I have no problems with the size, but I'd prefer more intimacy.

I'm also concerned about the restroom/concession situation.

[roadwarrior]

The design looks great from University Drive! I like how the addition ties into the existing building and to the ticket lobby. I would assume that the floor of the basketball arena would be at the same level as the floor of the Fargodome. That would put some seats below ground level, as the football seating is.

The key to getting this project going NOW is keeping the size/cost to a point where it is feasible with the money available. As someone already mentioned, one of the reasons this project might happen is that a smaller arena will make the Fargodome more appealing to more events. I am not concerned about the 6,000 seats.

This project will get Bison Basketball out of the BSA. Otherwise that remodelling project will proceed and we will be stuck there for many many years to come. This will indeed be a D-I quality arena!

[roadwarrior]

so there would be no separated concourse around the arena?

It sure looks like a concourse going all the way around the basketball seating with the ability to keep it separate from the football arena.

[NDSUguy]

personally i have no problems with a 6000 seat arena (even if it can't be expanded). There is nothing wrong with selling out every game.... The idea is not to build a place that sells out every once in a while. The idea should be to have a place that is intimate, sold out, loud and creates a buzz.....

I don't think that the number of seats will attract recruits. The atmosphere DURING THE GAME will entice players to attend NDSU (along with a successful program). The more intimate, loud and crazy the atmosphere the more a player will want to be a part of this program....

Last thing we need is a 9000 seat stadium with half of those in attendance being casual fans. Let's get a place with a good sized student section and fans who care enough to pay the price to get tickets....

[Bison bison]

i noticed that, but i like the concourse around the arena as well (would probably cost some serious $$$ to put another wall around it).

[markerman]

I think it's a beautiful design and the institution would be incredibly lucky to have something like this work out. It has some excellent modern design elements (i.e. glass) while blending with the overall design of the Dome (i.e. brick).

For those who desire a larger capacity, consider this:

Pre-D1 football attendance average ~ 12,000
Current Average ~ 18,700
Increase of 56%

2007 Basketball attendance ~ 2,625 (men's)
Average a sellout in new arena ~ 6,000
Increase of 128%

So, it would be a MUCH bigger increase (in terms of percentage) to consistantly sellout for basketball, and as someone said in another forum regarding expanding the dome:

You don't build a church for Easter Sunday attendance.

Basketball (IMO), you gain much more of a home field advantage with a packed house and intimate setting. This is the whole reason we don't want to use the Dome for basketball to begin with. In football, having a loud, packed house helps, but just the size of the Dome is intimidating to opponents. IMHO, that size intimidation doesn't translate to basketball as much.

From the perspective of the Dome Authority, they need to have two very different venues in order to sell this idea. If the capacity creeps up to much, you begin to have two venues that are much too similar and both the taxpayers and potential tenants (NDSU, concert promoters, convention hosts, etc.) don't see the value in the smaller space.

I'm excited to see the 3D drawings of the inside of the arena. I hope it's built like the Dome where the seating has a steep pitch so that even if you're high up, you're right over the action (this also helps with making it LOUD).

Overall, this is approximately 99.9% better than a remodeled BSA venue.

[Go_Herd]

Have you guys read the comments/thought section on the proposal to the dome.

What the heck are wrong with these people why the heck are so many people looking for this to be a hockey venue, especiallly John W.

i know everyone has opinions and they should be respected but come'on wth some of these people.

Also I am sick of people complaining of the sales tax issue. Do you people realize how much revenue that NDSU brings to North Fargo and Fargo in general. Heck some of those people might have jobs due to the college or all the students at campus using their money. Look at what has happened the last half dozen years on 19th avenue with all the new stuff.

Sorry needed to vent, narrowmindedness is a disease that just pisses me off.


by the way it looks fricking awesome

[roper1313]

First off, I love the renderings and am very excited to learn more about the plans. Second, 6000 seats sounds just about right to me (as long as it is expandable). I keep on seeing post stating that the arena should be bigger, look at some of our peer institutions, i.e. SDSU, and UNI. Check out these numbers:

USC's Galen Center
Capacity- 10,258
Enrollment-33,000
Alumni Base-190,000
Metro pop.- 10,000,000

Do we really need a 10,000 seat arena right now?

[HerdBot]

BSA can already hold more than 6000. Fine, 6000 is great, its awesome!
I am sure someone with a growing family would trade in their yugo for a two seat corvette. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.
I am not saying build a 9 or 10 thousand seat arena. But 6000? Seems the dome authority will get their way for a small concert venue, but again NDSU will get screwed with a facility with little or no expansion room. Just like the dome for football. How much more would it cost to start out with a 7000 to 7500 capacity? Maybe room to expand by 1500 or 2500 later.

The BSA is half empty. Or half full. Why would we need bigger? 6K, being sold our regularly, is huge. And if all the seats are good, it will sell out on a regular basis. That is a key part of the equation... are the seats all going to be good? If yes, 6K is perfect and it will sell out eventually and have a rockin atomosphere.

[SDbison]

Plans look very good. One very legitamate concern: EXPANDABILITY?

[WYOBISONMAN]

I agree with SD, expandibility is important as I would seriously think that 6000 seats will be much too small if this BB program is successful. I was hoping of something closer to 8000 for starters.

[tcbison]

Anyone know the capacity of the stadium of the teams in the Missouri Valley Conference? Isn't that the goal to get into that conference?

[Gully]

I think it's a beautiful design and the institution would be incredibly lucky to have something like this work out. It has some excellent modern design elements (i.e. glass) while blending with the overall design of the Dome (i.e. brick).

For those who desire a larger capacity, consider this:

Pre-D1 football attendance average ~ 12,000
Current Average ~ 18,700
Increase of 56%

2007 Basketball attendance ~ 2,625 (men's)
Average a sellout in new arena ~ 6,000
Increase of 128%

So, it would be a MUCH bigger increase (in terms of percentage) to consistantly sellout for basketball, and as someone said in another forum regarding expanding the dome:

You don't build a church for Easter Sunday attendance.

Basketball (IMO), you gain much more of a home field advantage with a packed house and intimate setting. This is the whole reason we don't want to use the Dome for basketball to begin with. In football, having a loud, packed house helps, but just the size of the Dome is intimidating to opponents. IMHO, that size intimidation doesn't translate to basketball as much.

From the perspective of the Dome Authority, they need to have two very different venues in order to sell this idea. If the capacity creeps up to much, you begin to have two venues that are much too similar and both the taxpayers and potential tenants (NDSU, concert promoters, convention hosts, etc.) don't see the value in the smaller space.

I'm excited to see the 3D drawings of the inside of the arena. I hope it's built like the Dome where the seating has a steep pitch so that even if you're high up, you're right over the action (this also helps with making it LOUD).

Overall, this is approximately 99.9% better than a remodeled BSA venue.

Your comparison about percentage increase in seating is flawed a bit, I think. Attendance was low last year but that was because of difficulty in scheduling. It would be more accurate to compare the numbers from back in the NCC days with familiar opponents where we I believe attendance was somewhat higher. I'm too lazy to look it up though so maybe I'm wrong.

Having said that, however, I agree with you that 6,000 seats would be fine. I'd rather have the buzz that comes with a very nice, filled arena. If it's expandable, well that's just a bonus.

[tony]

The MVC have some pretty big arenas - however, the McLeod Center at UNI is brand new and seats 7000.

[NDSUguy]

Can someone tell me why an additional 2-3k seats is better????

SOLD OUT STADIUMS ARE GOOD. Empty seats are not. Even if the mens/womens basketball teams are wildly successful and the tickets are sold out why is that bad????? Someone answer me that.....

What would suck is if the teams take a downturn (because every program has its ups and downs) and half the seats are empty with a 10k arena... The fans will come and go with the success of the team.

[Herd Mentality]

I really hate to say it, but I doubt this gets done because of the resentment in the community about NDSU. I see it more and more everyday. Everyone in Fargo wants the economic impact provided by a university the size of NDSU, but nobody wants a university in their town. There will be a vote and it will get canned because people are so convinced the FargoDome was a horrible idea and only done for NDSU. They fail to see that the Dome has been a success (concert attendance is down nationwide) and it is not an NDSU facility (they just lease the land to the Dome).

[tcbison]

Can someone tell me why an additional 2-3k seats is better????

SOLD OUT STADIUMS ARE GOOD. Empty seats are not. Even if the mens/womens basketball teams are wildly successful and the tickets are sold out why is that bad????? Someone answer me that.....

What would suck is if the teams take a downturn (because every program has its ups and downs) and half the seats are empty with a 10k arena... The fans will come and go with the success of the team.

2-3k seats would be better for a future conference like the MVC. That is why I would proposed built it at 6,000 with expansion possibilities for 8-10,000. It is great to have a sold out stadium but you could lose a huge opportunity if you can't expand...

[Go_Herd]

I really hate to say it, but I doubt this gets done because of the resentment in the community about NDSU. I see it more and more everyday. Everyone in Fargo wants the economic impact provided by a university the size of NDSU, but nobody wants a university in their town. There will be a vote and it will get canned because people are so convinced the FargoDome was a horrible idea and only done for NDSU. They fail to see that the Dome has been a success (concert attendance is down nationwide) and it is not an NDSU facility (they just lease the land to the Dome).


From Bison Blog"

"My impression is NDSU is going to make the financial end work with its raising of $15 million of the total 30 mil price tag. The No. 1 reason this will go forward: there is no vote on an additional tax."

http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/

"It appears four Fargo city commissioners are solid behind the plan with the exception being Mike Williams. Anytime you get thousands of people to something -- albeit a basketball game or Kermit the Frog on ice -- the city stands to gain. A city is like a shark, you have to keep moving forward or it will die."

I sure do like his last statement. Some people just don't get it

[roadwarrior]

This project does not need a public vote. Only the go from the Fargodome Authority and the Fargo city commission.

[aces1180]

Agreed. The 6000 seat horseshoe configuration lends itself to a more flexibile multi-purpose facility that the Fargodome authority and 4/5 of the City Commissioners approve of. 6000 seat arena's pricetag is smaller and has a better chance of getting built than a larger arena.

And that one City Commissioner, Mike Williams, needs to go...I hope he gets voted out when he is up for re-election.

[markerman]

Can someone tell me why an additional 2-3k seats is better????

SOLD OUT STADIUMS ARE GOOD. Empty seats are not. Even if the mens/womens basketball teams are wildly successful and the tickets are sold out why is that bad????? Someone answer me that.....

What would suck is if the teams take a downturn (because every program has its ups and downs) and half the seats are empty with a 10k arena... The fans will come and go with the success of the team.

Precisely, NDSUguy. Think of the interest and intrigue that is being generated by the football team with their sold-out games. Games being sold-out:

1) Makes people wonder what they are missing
2) Makes TV more realistic
3) Adds revenue through increased season ticket sales and (presumably) higher ticket prices

Amongst other benefits.

[NDSUstudent]

For those who want to know more you can always ask. Linda Coates has a blog and if you want to more about things like seating she will probably tell you what she knows...

http://www.areavoices.com/coates/

[bisonmike2]

does this affect the fargodome hosting the summit tournament. if I remember correctly a home court can't be used to host a tourney. it wouldn't be the same court but it is attached to it. will the fargodome continue to even host b-ball tournaments with a new arena? and while we're at it I'll mention this. 6000 sounds great. not to big not to small. if we ever got a big time game why not move it to the fargodome to accommodate for the larger crowds. I'm not saying it should be done everytime NDSU sells more than 6K tickets but if kentucky or florida (wishful thinking) was coming to town and you know 10K plus would be coming throw it in the dome.

[markerman]

I have one other request (make that demand) for the new arena.

I want a Bison logo at mid-court, not the Fargodome logo. If they put Fargodome logos along the side court in each zone, that's fine, but a Bison should be at mid-court (even if NDSU has to bring the floor from the BSA to do it).

[admin]

I have one other request (make that demand) for the new arena.

I want a Bison logo at mid-court, not the Fargodome logo. If they put Fargodome logos along the side court in each zone, that's fine, but a Bison should be at mid-court (even if NDSU has to bring the floor from the BSA to do it).

I bet NDSU will be footing the bill for the basketball floor so that should be fine.

Dang it, forgot to log off of admin - sorry.

[tcbison]

Dang it, forgot to log off of admin - sorry.

That is okay. The angry elf makes laugh...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[WYOBISONMAN]

The angry elf is perfect for Admin!!

[roadwarrior]

I think the new basketball floor and all of the new electronic signs at the BSA will be moved over to the new arena.

[Herd Mentality]

I realize that a vote isn't necessary, but there has been a precedent in this town of people forcing a vote. There will be resistance until NDSU funds 100% of it.

[TAILG8R]

I realize that a vote isn't necessary, but there has been a precedent in this town of people forcing a vote. There will be resistance until NDSU funds 100% of it.

I hear you and I am not trying to disagree, but if that were the case than NDSU would receive all the revenue created from the arena. At least with a shared cost arena the city or dome authority can get their hands on 100% of the revenue outside of basketball.

[Herd Mentality]

I hear you and I am not trying to disagree, but if that were the case than NDSU would receive all the revenue created from the arena. At least with a shared cost arena the city or dome authority can get their hands on 100% of the revenue outside of basketball.

But how many people realize that... unfortunately, there are too many in this town that see red even with what the dome has done for this city. It's just unfortunate.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I can't tell but it does not look like there are any suites in the plan. I think that is a mistake. It is a extra revenue stream. I love going to games in suites. I just wish I could afford to do it all the time.

[Hammersmith]

I can't tell but it does not look like there are any suites in the plan. I think that is a mistake. It is a extra revenue stream. I love going to games in suites. I just wish I could afford to do it all the time.

I think they are there, it's just that they're trying to show both the seating and the concourse in the same drawing. I wonder if those dark marks at the top of the shown seating might have something to do with suites. We'll get a better idea when the detailed plans are finished at the end of the month.

As for why some of us want future expandability, consider this:

MVC attendance: avg (smallest-largest)
8,020 (4,328-15,909)

MVC arena capacities: avg (smallest-largest)
10,560 (7,000-17,560)


As you can see, a 6,000 seat arena would be the smallest in the conference and would be 2,000 seats shy of allowing the average. Also, the MVC average grew 300 from 2006 to 2007, so the gap is just going to keep getting wider. For 2007, a soldout 6,000 seat arena would've placed us 7th of 11 in the MVC. I'm all for a 6,000 seat arena now, but I don't want to see any obstacles added to a future move to the MVC. BTW, MAC/WAC/MWC averages are 3,145/6,630/8,298.

[Bisonguy]

But how many people realize that... unfortunately, there are too many in this town that see red even with what the dome has done for this city. It's just unfortunate.

Yeah, listening to the radio today, there were some people that seem to resent the Fargodome. At least one guy thought it should have been built near West Acres. :banghead:

[BisBison]

Yeah, listening to the radio today, there were some people that seem to resent the Fargodome. At least one guy thought it should have been built near West Acres. :banghead:

Don't worry about people with IQs equal to their waist size. They don't vote anyway.

[Herd]

The need for a smaller arena is a reflection of the size of the basketball floor vs. the football floor in the Fargodome today.

The floor area in the new basketball arena will be the same if it seats 3000, 6000, or 9000. THE SAME!!

The dome authority will have their smaller venue regarless of the number of seats just because of the floor size. Do not attach the number of seats to the new arena being a "smaller venue". They are mutually exclusive.

[CaBisonFan]

First off, I love the renderings and am very excited to learn more about the plans. Second, 6000 seats sounds just about right to me (as long as it is expandable). I keep on seeing post stating that the arena should be bigger, look at some of our peer institutions, i.e. SDSU, and UNI. Check out these numbers:

USC's Galen Center
Capacity- 10,258
Enrollment-33,000
Alumni Base-190,000
Metro pop.- 10,000,000

Do we really need a 10,000 seat arena right now?

8 to 9. 6000 is too small...in my opinion.

[02Bison]

8 to 9. 6000 is too small...in my opinion.

The Bison Men averaged 2,625 attendance per home game last year. An arena of 8-9K capacity right now would surely kill some of the atmosphere. 6,000 sounds about right.

[tcbison]

The Bison Men averaged 2,625 attendance per home game last year. An arena of 8-9K capacity right now would surely kill some of the atmosphere. 6,000 sounds about right.

NDSU didn't have a conference last year either. Attendance will be higher this year. You can bank on it. I still say build it to 6,000 but it must be expandable to 8-10,000 to get in a higher conference like the MVC.

[99Bison]

I can't tell but it does not look like there are any suites in the plan. I think that is a mistake. It is a extra revenue stream. I love going to games in suites. I just wish I could afford to do it all the time.

Not sure about suites in the current plan, however now days club level seating/ticketing generates more revenue than suites. All new arena's are foucsing on that instead of just suites.

[99Bison]

NDSU didn't have a conference last year either. Attendance will be higher this year. You can bank on it. I still say build it to 6,000 but it must be expandable to 8-10,000 to get in a higher conference like the MVC.

Yes, the expanability is important if only 6k right now. Also, as stated a half empty 10k infinately worse on the atmosphere than a 6k with 1k empty.

[KC Bison]

I'm trying to remember the attendance during my days at NDSU the early 1980's when Irv Inniger first came to town. It seems to me that it was in the 4-5,000 area so the idea of only 2,600 coming to games now seems pretty sad. Maybe 6,000 seats are adequate for now but it needs to be clearly spelled out what the word EXPANDABLE means. If it only means 7,000, this is not a long term solution. If it means 8-9-10,000, I'm OK with the plan.

[KC Bison]

I went out to the UND web site and if I understood it correctly, their men and women basketball arena that only seats 4,000?? Is that correct?

[roadwarrior]

Yes, but they also have the ralph.

[roper1313]

I went out to the UND web site and if I understood it correctly, their men and women basketball arena that only seats 4,000?? Is that correct?

That's right. The Betty was built too small to handle d1 hoops (too small for D2 for that matter). Of course they have a pretty nice venue next door that seats 12,000 for big games .

[99Bison]

Not real Basketball friendly though.

[Bison bison]

the betty was built for teenage hockey players had a place to throw their bags for the World Juniors a few years ago.

[Bison Dan]

I went out to the UND web site and if I understood it correctly, their men and women basketball arena that only seats 4,000?? Is that correct?

The Betty holds a little over 3,000 - No one I have talked to that has seen a bb game in the Ralph has been impressed with it as a bb venue.

[met1990]

How dare anyone degrades the Ralph with a lowly sport such as basketball?? j/k

The atmosphere for the last Bison/Sioux game in GF didn't really appeal to me. It was quite obvious it felt like a basketball game played in a hockey arena. It's much the same feeling I get watching basketball games in the Fargodome. There's just too much dead space.

[99Bison]

How dare anyone degrades the Ralph with a lowly sport such as basketball?? j/k

The atmosphere for the last Bison/Sioux game in GF didn't really appeal to me. It was quite obvious it felt like a basketball game played in a hockey arena. It's much the same feeling I get watching basketball games in the Fargodome. There's just too much dead space.

Yep, and even worse it seems that 70% of the seats face the court at an angle.

[Go_Herd]

It's much the same feeling I get watching basketball games in the Fargodome. There's just too much dead space.

When was the last game played in the Fargodome?

[Herd Mentality]

When was the last game played in the Fargodome?

When was the last time the Globetrotters were in town...

[99Bison]

Probably one of the HS tournaments a couple years back?

[onbison09]

From the Bison Media Blog
A reader sent the following letter, which brings up a debatable topic on the number of seats:
Jeff, I too am excited about the possibility of a Fargodome expansion that would house NDSU basketball. However, I respectfully disagree on your comment on the Bison Media Blog where you stated "It's the right size, about 6,000 seats, and has the right look for big-time Division I basketball." There was a collective sigh of "Is that all the bigger it is?" when the architectural drawings were introduced in todays Forum.

I can't imagine that NDSU is trying to downsize - doesn't the BSA hold 6,500? I'm sure the new facility will be state of the art, but I'm having trouble getting past the 6,000 seats. It seems like the vision regaring this venue is a little too modest (in terms of seating), unless they are building it with the room and planning to be able to add seats in the future. I'm sure there are a number of D-I schools with a smaller arena, but here are a few arena capacities for other mid-major schools:

Frost Arena SDSU - 8,000

Resch Arena U of W Green Bay - 9,700

William Johnson Coliseum Stephen F. Austin - 7,200

McLeod Center UNI - 7,000

Mabee Center ORU - 11,000

What happened to the original talk of a 7,500 to 8,000 arena adjoining the Fargodome? The buzz created by Bison basketball is continuing to grow in popularity. With a conference, I can envision (withing a few short years) the current planned arena sold out on a regular basis. There is no reason why it couldn't do the same with 7,000 seats.
I think 6 thousand is too small. If the program takes off (medium sized if with Miles gone) 6,000 will be way too small.

[Hammersmith]

I threw this together because some posters over at InForum were worried about the parking situation. It includes the footprint of the addition plus the two west lots that can be added if needed.

http://tinyurl.com/2bay27

[roadwarrior]

Some of the parking worries already exist if the Bison have a basketball game in the BSA and the dome has an event the same night. The new arena would only move the basketball crowd a few hundred feet. The parking would remain mostly the same. As Hammersmith pointed out and what was mentioned in the original article, the far west lots will most likely get paved if the arena is built.

[imabison]

Some of the parking worries already exist if the Bison have a basketball game in the BSA and the dome has an event the same night. The new arena would only move the basketball crowd a few hundred feet. The parking would remain mostly the same. As Hammersmith pointed out and what was mentioned in the original article, the far west lots will most likely get paved if the arena is built.
Keep in mind also there is a request of the restraunt spot to be in the NW corner of the lots. That would further reduce the number of parking spots.

There are some real interesting decisions to be made.

[roadwarrior]

We can always walk from home!

[met1990]

When was the last game played in the Fargodome?

I was thinking back to one of the ND high school tournaments they've held. It seems like there are three things going against it being a good basketball layout. First, the roof is so far from the playing surface. Second, the fans on the side are far away from the court. Third, the seats, especially on the baselines, aren't very steep. I guess a fourth thing is that ugly Fargodome logo at midcourt.

[BisonSig]

I am not nearly as worried about parking as I am about access. We have the biggest FUBAR'd situation right now. 19th Ave N and 12th Ave N both get backed up for miles so does University Drive.

I would hope that the City of Fargo, the FFD and NDSU are all talking about how to improve the traffic flow.

[Gully]

What are the next steps for the BB arena? If the $15M is available from the FFD fund, why don't they just get on with it and raise the rest of the money?

[Gully]

I see Brad Wimmer is going to be on hot talk tomorrow discussing this. If anyone catches it, please post what is said.

[Bisonguy]

I see Brad Wimmer is going to be on hot talk tomorrow discussing this. If anyone catches it, please post what is said.
I caught a portion of it- Mainly talked about what's next- feasability study, etc. Reiterated that there was NO new or additional tax, stated that it doesn't need a vote, and that a more clear picture should be available around January/February (most of the studies should be done by then).

Scott then started talking about the possiblity of ice-making (not the beverage type) equipment in the arena, and I quit listening.