Big NCAA meeting this week

[Hammersmith]

Article from the Argus Leader:
Playoff expansion would be boost to SDSU, USD (http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070919/SPORTS0202/709190332/1002/SPORTS)

It sounds like there's broad-based support for an expansion to 24 teams(12 auto qualifiers) with 8 teams seeded with byes.

also on the agenda (just as big):

- It will consider a piece of legislation that would halve the time a reclassifying school waits to become a "core" member of a conference - a key component to maintaining automatic-qualifier status - from eight years to four in men's basketball. That would make the Jacks a core member of the Summit League in 2012-13 (good news for the turnover-prone conference), while the Coyotes could count as early as 2016-17, perhaps making them more immediately attractive to potential suitors.

- The Division I women's basketball committee has recommended reducing the number of allowable scholarships from 15 to 13 and applying the difference toward other women's sports.

[bisonmike2]

this is huge! especially with us joining an ultra competitive football league next year it would give us some leeway if we would slip up a couple times during the year.

[AKBison]

Article from the Argus Leader:
Playoff expansion would be boost to SDSU, USD (http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070919/SPORTS0202/709190332/1002/SPORTS)

It sounds like there's broad-based support for an expansion to 24 teams(12 auto qualifiers) with 8 teams seeded with byes.

also on the agenda (just as big):

There are two sides to this story. On one hand it is great news for the Summit league as it bodes very well for its future if a couple schools bail out. On the other hand, this opens the door for USD and UND to the Summit. I honestly wouldn't mind being in a conference with USD again and wouldn't mind if they were in the Gateway someday. I am really pulling for UND to get into the Big Sky as a stand alone. It would be a nice safe conference for them, allow them to drop baseball and start their beloved Lacrosse. I really don't think UND and NDSU should be in the same conference again, to much hate has developed.

Anyways, all of these changes would be a plus for NDSU. Especially the womens scholarship reduction in Basketball. This will help to level the playing field a little and allow us to use those schollys in Softball or soccer or whatever.

[Gully]

Not sure how a reduction in women's basketball scholarships helps the Bison? Aren't we currently funding the maximum number?

[99Bison]

Drops top tier programs (anything thing 'higher' than us) down two, so that we can potentially get better players.

[NDSUguy]

There are two sides to this story. On one hand it is great news for the Summit league as it bodes very well for its future if a couple schools bail out. On the other hand, this opens the door for USD and UND to the Summit. I honestly wouldn't mind being in a conference with USD again and wouldn't mind if they were in the Gateway someday. I am really pulling for UND to get into the Big Sky as a stand alone. It would be a nice safe conference for them, allow them to drop baseball and start their beloved Lacrosse. I really don't think UND and NDSU should be in the same conference again, to much hate has developed.

Anyways, all of these changes would be a plus for NDSU. Especially the womens scholarship reduction in Basketball. This will help to level the playing field a little and allow us to use those schollys in Softball or soccer or whatever.

I don't see how this opens the door for UND/USD to the Summit league. There are currently no talks of teams leaving the Summit and without teams leaving there is no reason to expand. I don't think that USD/UND being eligible for post season play sooner in basketball makes them more likely/attractive to the Summit.

I think that the biggest part of this announcement is the expansion of the playoff system for football. This will help out the Great West and would likely keep USD/UND away from the Gateway. There would be no need for them to look elsewhere for football if they could stay in their current conference (assuming that they add a team or two).

[roadwarrior]

I don't think that USD/UND being eligible for post season play sooner in basketball makes them more likely/attractive to the Summit.

It would not change how long it takes to become eligible for post season play, it would shorten how long it takes to count as a core member of a conference.

[Gully]

Drops top tier programs (anything thing 'higher' than us) down two, so that we can potentially get better players.

That's true but wouldn't it also drop us down to the level of teams that don't offer the full slate of schollys? Or maybe everyone has to be fully funded at DI? Not sure.

[AKBison]

What it does is allows us to use those two extra scholarships in a different womens sport that we are not fully funded in in yet. I don't know are numbers but I assume sports like Softball, soccer or Volleyball are not fully funded at this point. I really hope they pass all this legislation.

By the way Cenetary and ORU are two highly likely candiates to bolt within the next few years. If those schools did leave, we would not be forced to add bottom feeder core schools just to retain our autobid. (Assuming timing was right and the legislation passed)

[RedRiver]

What it does is allows us to use those two extra scholarships in a different womens sport that we are not fully funded in in yet. I don't know are numbers but I assume sports like Softball, soccer or Volleyball are not fully funded at this point. I really hope they pass all this legislation.

By the way Cenetary and ORU are two highly likely candiates to bolt within the next few years. If those schools did leave, we would not be forced to add bottom feeder core schools just to retain our autobid. (Assuming timing was right and the legislation passed)

Even if those schools did leave, the Summit would not have to add any teams to retain the autobid.

[99Bison]

That's true but wouldn't it also drop us down to the level of teams that don't offer the full slate of schollys? Or maybe everyone has to be fully funded at DI? Not sure.

IMHO 13 vs. 11 for women's BB probably isn't a big deal when you are comparing team A to team B.

However, the factor that each high major team will have 2 less scholarships means there will be an additional what, say 100 players available for the mid majors that we not before.

[Bisonguy]

Even if those schools did leave, the Summit would not have to add any teams to retain the autobid.

If both schools would leave before NDSU and SDSU become core members (currently, 2016/2017 season), the Summit would be on the two year grace period for retaining the autobid:


31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. The member conference must include seven
core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an
active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership
requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference
competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men’s basketball. There shall be no
exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that
satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the auto-
matic qualifier. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)
31.3.4.4.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two
years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s mem-
bership to fall below seven institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership,
provided the conference maintains at least six Division I members. (Adopted: 4/27/00;
Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

[RedRiver]

Even if those two teams left there would be no advantage for the Summit to add new transitional schools. The Summit would still be an eight team league and the remaining members could be satisfied with that league structure for years and have no need to add transitional schools.

[Bisonguy]

Even if those two teams left there would be no advantage for the Summit to add new transitional schools. The Summit would still be an eight team league and the remaining members could be satisfied with that league structure for years and have no need to add transitional schools.

No reason to add transitional schools, but they might be quick to add a lesser-quality core member to retain the men's BB autobid.

[NDSU1980]

What it does is allows us to use those two extra scholarships in a different womens sport that we are not fully funded in in yet. I don't know are numbers but I assume sports like Softball, soccer or Volleyball are not fully funded at this point. I really hope they pass all this legislation.

By the way Cenetary and ORU are two highly likely candiates to bolt within the next few years. If those schools did leave, we would not be forced to add bottom feeder core schools just to retain our autobid. (Assuming timing was right and the legislation passed)

Even if they did leave, I've sure there are better teams to the east that are more deserving of being in the summit then also rans like UND or USD.

[Gully]

What it does is allows us to use those two extra scholarships in a different womens sport that we are not fully funded in in yet. I don't know are numbers but I assume sports like Softball, soccer or Volleyball are not fully funded at this point. I really hope they pass all this legislation.

By the way Cenetary and ORU are two highly likely candiates to bolt within the next few years. If those schools did leave, we would not be forced to add bottom feeder core schools just to retain our autobid. (Assuming timing was right and the legislation passed)

Does anyone really care about those sports? At least Women's basketball draws fans and creates revenue at NDSU

[bisonmike2]

when does this vote take place?

[jeffdaryl3rd]

How about reducing the number of scholarships from 15 to 13 and using the extra two scholarships to bump baseball from 4 to 6 scholarships? Seriously, we have a $5 million stadium that NDSU owns 34% of and we can't get any scholarships, a travel budget, or recruiting budget. We'll probably take the scholarships and start a women's badmitten team to further clog the BSA practice schedule so that baseball practices get bumped from 6am to 4am.

[Bison bison]

TITLE IX baby!

[jeffdaryl3rd]

I know that would never happen and not suggesting that it should actually be done because that sets a bad precedent, but I just hate to see sports willfully neglected.

[Greenie]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-09-25-fcs-playoffs_N.htm

I-AA playoffs may expand to 18 teams

The Division I-AA football playoffs will grow by two teams to 18 next season if the NCAA board of directors approves expansion at its April meeting.
One of the teams will be a conference champion and the other an at-large entry. The proposal was approved by the Division I Championships/Competition Cabinet last week.

Still to be determined: how to encompass an extra week in the schedule and which conference will receive an automatic qualifier. The new field will have nine conference champs and nine at-large schools.

[RedRiver]

As a follow-up to the noon Coach Bohl show, Dan Hammer is currently interviewing Ed Grom the Great West commissioner on 740 AM. Ed is also on the NCAA committee that recommended the approval of FCS expansion from 16 to 18 teams.

An interesting point was that the original proposal for expansion was to increase the number to 24 teams, but due to the high costs of such as move, approval was granted at 18 teams.

[RodentiaX]

Will it be like a "play-in" game? If I figure it right, #16 and #17 would play and the winner would take on the #1 seed, while #15 and #18 would play, and the winner of that game would take on the #2 seed?

[bisonaudit]

Will it be like a "play-in" game? If I figure it right, #16 and #17 would play and the winner would take on the #1 seed, while #15 and #18 would play, and the winner of that game would take on the #2 seed?

I believe that is correct.

[Greenie]

Expect an incremental change that will eventually put 24 teams in the FCS bracket. Money was the issue holding up an immediate move from 16 to 24.

[56BISON73]

Expect an incremental change that will eventually put 24 teams in the FCS bracket. Money was the issue holding up an immediate move from 16 to 24.

How many conferences in FCS??? PL

[Hammersmith]

How many conferences in FCS??? PL

15 at the moment, but I think one(MAAC) is about to fold as a football conference. They only have four teams left.

Big Sky*
Big South (5 teams)
Colonial* (formerly the A-10)
Gateway*
Great West (5 teams)
Ivy (non-scholarship - choose not to participate in playoffs)
MAAC (4 teams)
MEAC*
Northeast (limited scholarships - 30)
Ohio Valley*
Patriot*
Pioneer (non-scholarship)
Southern*
Southland*
SWAC (have E/W championship game -choose not to participate in playoffs)

*autobids

The Northeast(NEC) is most likely to receive the 9th autobid. There's talk they plan to up their scholarship limit to 45 within a year or two. They were non-scholarship just a few years back.

Also, the Ivy League does give athletic aid, they just call it other things and get huffy if you press them on it. But that's just my opinion. Pioneer does a bit of that as well, but not nearly so much.

[56BISON73]

15 at the moment, but I think one(MAAC) is about to fold as a football conference. They only have four teams left.

Big Sky*
Big South (5 teams)
Colonial* (formerly the A-10)
Gateway*
Great West (5 teams)
Ivy (non-scholarship - choose not to participate in playoffs)
MAAC (4 teams)
MEAC*
Northeast (limited scholarships - 30)
Ohio Valley*
Patriot*
Pioneer (non-scholarship)
Southern*
Southland*
SWAC (have E/W championship game -choose not to participate in playoffs)

*autobids

The Northeast(NEC) is most likely to receive the 9th autobid. There's talk they plan to up their scholarship limit to 45 within a year or two. They were non-scholarship just a few years back.

Also, the Ivy League does give athletic aid, they just call it other things and get huffy if you press them on it. But that's just my opinion. Pioneer does a bit of that as well, but not nearly so much.

How many shools in the FCS? Sorry that I forgot to ask that with the other question. PL

[Hammersmith]

How many shools in the FCS? Sorry that I forgot to ask that with the other question. PL

121 by my count. That includes transitioning schools like us, but not schools that have announced but not begun like UND.

[Greenie]

There is a decent chance that both new spots will be at-large bids. This is the best choice right now. I don't think any conference should get an auto-bid unless they require 50 scholarships or so. If a conference only requires 30some scholarships, then it is no different than DII... and therefore doesn't deserve an auto-bid. The last thing the FCS playoffs need is precious spots taken up by auto-bid-subpar teams...give the extra spot(s) to the 4th place team in the Gateway or Colonial (or Great West Champ) for example.

[bisonaudit]

I think that the auto bid issue is part of the reason for the expansion proposal. Under the current auto bid guidelines there are a couple of conference that are on track to qualify for an autobid over the next several years so they've either got to change the auto bid rules to incorporate scholarship minimums or other additional rules and/or they need to expand the playoff field to preserve the changes of quality teams from the power conferences making the playoffs.

This is starting to sould like March Madness except there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. $$$$$

[RodentiaX]

Makes sense that the new playoff spots would be at large spots, it's hard to justify any more autobid spots unless a couple conferences shore themselves up. But what's the point of being in the FCS if you don't participate in the playoffs? Does the FBS have minimum scholarship requirements? If not, then perhaps the Ivy League and the Pioneer League could go to the FBS, and play each other in a Bowl Game.

[56BISON73]

There is a decent chance that both new spots will be at-large bids. This is the best choice right now. I don't think any conference should get an auto-bid unless they require 50 scholarships or so. If a conference only requires 30some scholarships, then it is no different than DII... and therefore doesn't deserve an auto-bid. The last thing the FCS playoffs need is precious spots taken up by auto-bid-subpar teams...give the extra spot(s) to the 4th place team in the Gateway or Colonial (or Great West Champ) for example.

Do you really think that a team that finishes 3rd or 4th in there conference should be in a playoff for the national championship??? PL

[Greenie]

Absolutely a team should be in the playoffs if they are one of the best at-large teams. For example, the Gateway has 5 of the top 17 teams right now (6 if you included NDSU).

[bisonaudit]

If they don't change the auto bid rules there will be 10 instead of 8 auto bids before to long so the number of at-large teams will be back down to 8 again assuming they stick w/ an 18 team field.

[tony]

If they don't change the auto bid rules there will be 10 instead of 8 auto bids before to long so the number of at-large teams will be back down to 8 again assuming they stick w/ an 18 team field.

Yeah, I think the plan is to expand to 24. It'd be great if they could get the Ivy League and the SWAC to jump on board the playoff bandwagon. Can you imagine Havard v NDSU at the FargoDome?

[Hammersmith]

If they don't change the auto bid rules there will be 10 instead of 8 auto bids before to long so the number of at-large teams will be back down to 8 again assuming they stick w/ an 18 team field.

NCAA rules only allow 50% to be autobids. In a 18 team field, autobids can make up no more than 9 of the slots. Of course, it sounds like this is the first step of a 7(?) year plan to move the playoffs to 24. That would give us a potential 12 autobids.

(18 teams in 2008; 20 in 2010; 22 in 2012; 24 in 2014. Just a guess, but it would allow autobids to be added at about the times they'll be needed. 2008:NEC; 2010:SWAC; 2012/2014:Big South/GWFC(whichever gets a 6th team first) Only the Pioneer and Ivy wouldn't have autobids at that point.)