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Herd Mentality
09-12-2007, 05:34 PM
Today I sent an email to a friend of mine who is the head of Event Services at the FargoDome. I explained what had happened and asked if I could get a description of the criteria security uses for ejecting fans. I will share that information as soon as I get it.

"DO NOT ARREST THIS FAN!"

Herd Mentality
09-12-2007, 08:23 PM
Here is the email I sent to the head of Security at the FFD. Names have been changed to protect the innocent....

"Head of Event Services":

It’s quite unfortunate under the circumstances for which I was forced to find your business card and email address. I did think about copying "Director of Dome" on this as well, but I’ve always known you to always say it like is.

I’m not sure how in-tune you are with the entire dome security detail and the actions that happened there, but I was the fan “forcefully” removed from Section 20 during last Saturday’s NDSU Football game. I say “forcefully” here as I was escorted out by 3-4 members of the Fargo PD along with another 3-4 members of the dome security detail even though I did not put up any physical fight nor was intoxicated.

First a little background on the situation… During the game, we were lucky enough to have the offensive line coach set up a whiteboard right in front of my seat. Needless to say that invited us to make many,many “Pictionary” references while he tried to draw up blocking schemes. He realized it was a bust and quit after the 2nd series. I think yourself and many of the tenured security personnel have realized over the years that the group I’m in has never crossed the line. I don’t tolerate vulgarity at the games due to a lot of the younger kids in the section, but we’re not going to let the opposing team have an easy time. You put a 300 lb offensive lineman in a medium jersey….he’s going to hear “Fat guy in a little jersey” all night long. In this situation, the offensive line coach was a rather large man wearing a very tight polo shirt. His erect nipples were very prominent and I made the comment… “Is it cold in here? ….Or is it just this guy?” Apparently this is the statement that got me in trouble.

Shortly after, I was approached by a member of the FPD (who was extremely courteous) and a member of the event staff that I did not recognize. I was told that there was a complaint that I was sexually harassing the female training staff. I was a little stunned at this point, at which point I said that I had no idea what they were talking about. The event staff member then got in my face and said these words “I don’t care what you think you said, if we get any more complaints you’re F’NING gone!” At this point, one of the people behind me informed me that the assistant to the offensive line coach had gone over to dome security and said something right before this happened. I was still a little shocked and basically sat in the seat for the next 5-10 minutes trying to figure out what had happened. At which point somebody else in the section made the comment “My nipples are hard too! It’s because mine are pierced”. Shortly after is when I was escorted out. The assistant mention before was laughing about it as I walked out. I was told that there was a security member right below me and he saw me “doing exactly what they warned me about”. I said that was a lie and the nearest security member was over a section away and to ask anyone in that section if I had even opened my mouth after I was accused the first time. I was told “It doesn’t matter…the FargoDome does not want you here”.

Several things bother me about this… A member of the opposite team can lie and get fans ejected from the game nor was I allowed to prove my innocence or guilt. I was also humiliated in front of hundreds of people and treated like a common criminal. However the biggest fear is that this was the very first game of the season and now I’m going to be “marked” for something that I didn’t even do.

When I worked there I know that the Dome has always had a policy to remove those who appear obviously intoxicated or those that sneak in alcoholic beverages. I had done neither. I also would not blame dome security for removing a fan for being excessively vulgar after being warned at least once. (Even I will admit to muttering BS after a bad call) Could you please tell me the criteria that event security puts forward to warrant an ejection? I know of at least one other fan that was threatened with ejection last week for standing and cheering (and I know of one fan several years ago that was ejected for that offense).

Thanks for your time, and I eagerly await your response.

Herd Mentality
09-12-2007, 08:44 PM
I won't list the exact text of the email, but I will quote some of it here. I think the biggest shock here is what I was accused of:

"They all tell me the incident occurred this way, the female training staff approached the Fargo Police officer on the field and said that there is a guy in the stands right behind their bench who keeps referencing my breasts, talking about felatio amongst other inappropriate remarks."

WHAT?!

"It is explained to me that approximately 10 minutes after this first exchange that the same SFA trainer approached the officer again and said that the comments have not ceased and she is very uncomfortable, this is when the decision was made to have you escorted from the building. "

From that point I went on to discuss a fan that was ejected several years ago and dome of the issues with Section 21 on Saturday. The response...

"The Fargodome does have policy and procedures in place for escorting guests from the building and criteria for a guest to be removed, and I can definitely tell you that standing and cheering at an NDSU football game is not one of them. As for standing, verbally intimidating guests around you for not cheering when YOU think they should or getting in their face for not standing when YOU think they should be standing is another story. That is not one guest’s responsibility to be the head cheer leader in a section and being verbally aggressive with other guests will not be tolerated. We put a lot of time and effort with the event staff to teach them the difference in these two activities. We as Fargodome staff do not initiate these conversations with guests UNLESS they are brought to our attention through a guest concern/complaint. Our ushers, security, and other staff do NOT approach guests in the stands and ask them to sit for no reason. At this point, it is our responsibility to investigate these concerns to understand the validity. If a fan is standing and cheering, it is our policy to let that guest know that yes, in fact he may be blocking someone behind him and if he/she wants to stand the entire game and block a fellow NDSU fan from seeing the game than unfortunately we cannot do anything about it nor ask that individual to sit down. If has been my experience over the many years that just letting the guest that’s standing know that he is in fact creating a negative event experience for guests around him that is all it takes although then you have the guests who say “too bad, they can stand or they won’t see the game” and it is my opinion that if that is how they are then there is not much we can do unless there behavior transitions into my example above which unfortunately is happening more often. "

However.... it ended like this.

"I can honestly tell you that everyone of my conversations to all parties involved with this has been that I have known you for years and that you have always kept it clean on the sidelines and that we have never had any negative interactions with you and actually has been quite the contrary. That was even said by our outside security that chats with you every game day. I don’t know what to say "Herd Mentality" except that I am sorry this took place to begin with and I hope we can eventually put it behind us and move forward in a positive way without any hard feelings because you have my word that you will not be singled out in any way for upcoming games."

I think that's what I wanted the most...an apology. It's unfortunate that I had no recourse to defend what was said against me, but I can live with it as long as no other overly-sensitive teams visit the FargoDome. The preacher may have to come out of retirement to teach the masses on acceptance and caring about other peoples feelings!

roadwarrior
09-12-2007, 08:53 PM
"The Fargodome does have policy and procedures in place for escorting guests from the building and criteria for a guest to be removed, and I can definitely tell you that standing and cheering at an NDSU football game is not one of them. As for standing, verbally intimidating guests around you for not cheering when YOU think they should or getting in their face for not standing when YOU think they should be standing is another story."

I'm glad that you told your side of the story and received back a quick reply and explanation.

The portion of the response that I highlighted above kind of tells the story about standing and cheering.

Herd Mentality
09-12-2007, 09:00 PM
It's like I've got my own thread! (can I keep it 02Bison free?)

It's obvious what needs to be done here about the standing/cheering issue. For several years, there have been false promises made to create a "Thunderzone" or a group of TeamMakers that are more active than the rest. I don't think they've ever really given it a try or put any thought into it. It was just another vehicle to sell more memberships/tickets.

I loved the idea of having a section opposite the students like this in order to intimidate the visiting team from sideline to sideline, but if these altercations with other Bison fans (and they ARE other Bison fans that the problem is with) continue...I can see FEWER people being TeamMakers and just going into the cheap seats for games.

Do we need to designate this section next to the students? I don't know, but I think Simmers and all the others that keep making these statements for a section like that need to get off their butts and make it happen. We're all rooting for the same team here, right? Maybe we need a change of TeamMaker "management" and get some young blood in there?

My two cents, if you want to berate me...please do it via PM.

TransAmBison
09-12-2007, 09:13 PM
It's like I've got my own thread! (can I keep it 02Bison free?)

It's obvious what needs to be done here about the standing/cheering issue. For several years, there have been false promises made to create a "Thunderzone" or a group of TeamMakers that are more active than the rest. I don't think they've ever really given it a try or put any thought into it. It was just another vehicle to sell more memberships/tickets.

I loved the idea of having a section opposite the students like this in order to intimidate the visiting team from sideline to sideline, but if these altercations with other Bison fans (and they ARE other Bison fans that the problem is with) continue...I can see FEWER people being TeamMakers and just going into the cheap seats for games.

Do we need to designate this section next to the students? I don't know, but I think Simmers and all the others that keep making these statements for a section like that need to get off their butts and make it happen. We're all rooting for the same team here, right? Maybe we need a change of TeamMaker "management" and get some young blood in there?

My two cents, if you want to berate me...please do it via PM.
I second your motion...but I fear it is all for nothing, the almighty dollar gets the last word, and they will not take a chance of upsetting current "traditional"* teammakers.

*traditional--teammakers that want to sit and be entertained and not cheer, and just happen to be in a majority.

Bisonguy
09-12-2007, 09:14 PM
Thanks for posting this Herd Mentality. At least everyone now knows where the line is, at least for standing.

56BISON73
09-12-2007, 09:15 PM
I think you handled the situation in a very professional manner and the reply was also.
The idea of a section for the very enthusiastic fans is a good one and should be persued with the appropriate correspondence and follow up. PL

TAILG8R
09-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Just remember that if you are approached by 'Dome Security' and asked to sit down because others around you can't see, think for a second before mouthing off. As stated in the email, they can't make you sit, so if you really don't want to you don't have to. But if start arguing and say the wrong thing they will no doubt use that as an excuse to ask you to leave.

they may ask and you certainly can oblige to some extent, just make sure that you don't shoot yourself in the foot when addressing the yellow jackets.

Herd Mentality
09-12-2007, 09:23 PM
I REALLY need to stress about how good they've been about this whole thing. You'll see in my many posts over the years that I have always been "pro" dome security. I think the do the best they can. The issue is overly sensitive fans - and trainers.

However, I will still be in disguise this week.

TAILG8R
09-12-2007, 09:26 PM
I think having a section designated for enthusiastic fans would be great for several reasons.

First the obvious, it would provide a place for those of us who enjoy being loud and standing the entire game. Cheering and doing all of the things that we feel are normal expected actions at a college football game.

I also think that it would be beneficial for those who like to sit and be entertained and choose not to cheer loud and stand to have a section like this. They would be free to sit with an unobstructed view and not have to worry about there Belltone ringing too loudly.

I think if it were approached correctly by NDSU you could get both sides on this one to come together and back a 'Thunderzone' section. I don't know the extent of the actions so far on this idea but would it help to have a petition? I think if you talked to those apposed to all the standing and explained the benefits to them you could get them to sign said petition as well.

Maybe we could start a simple online petition to get the ball rolling, then move on to approaching fans as they come into the dome or doing more foot work to spread the word.

TransAmBison
09-12-2007, 09:35 PM
I think having a section designated for enthusiastic fans would be great for several reasons.

First the obvious, it would provide a place for those of us who enjoy being loud and standing the entire game. Cheering and doing all of the things that we feel are normal expected actions at a college football game.

I also think that it would be beneficial for those who like to sit and be entertained and choose not to cheer loud and stand to have a section like this. They would be free to sit with an unobstructed view and not have to worry about there Belltone ringing too loudly.

I think if it were approached correctly by NDSU you could get both sides on this one to come together and back a 'Thunderzone' section. I don't know the extent of the actions so far on this idea but would it help to have a petition? I think if you talked to those apposed to all the standing and explained the benefits to them you could get them to sign said petition as well.

Maybe we could start a simple online petition to get the ball rolling, then move on to approaching fans as they come into the dome or doing more foot work to spread the word.
Been done already...and it was met with a smile, and now sits under a nice rug.

AKBison
09-12-2007, 09:51 PM
[QUOTE]
I think if it were approached correctly by NDSU you could get both sides on this one to come together and back a 'Thunderzone' section. I don't know the extent of the actions so far on this idea but would it help to have a petition? I think if you talked to those apposed to all the standing and explained the benefits to them you could get them to sign said petition as well.[QUOTE]

Although Teammakers is so much more than a tool for seating preference, the day that the Thunderzone becomes a reality, you can sign me up for TeamMakers and 4 tickets in the Thunderzone. Until then it is GA for me. (Although I will likely sign up for TeamMakers next year anyways.)

Yo
09-12-2007, 11:55 PM
I second your motion...but I fear it is all for nothing, the almighty dollar gets the last word, and they will not take a chance of upsetting current "traditional"* teammakers.

*traditional--teammakers that want to sit and be entertained and not cheer, and just happen to be in a majority.


I totally agree. I am actually thinking about changing our seats just so we don't have a Blue Head tap us on the shoulder telling us to sit down. I also know that moving our seats mean we would pay LESS in Team Makers dues.

bisongirl
09-13-2007, 12:20 AM
Yo--what Row are you in?

onbison09
09-13-2007, 03:30 AM
That's unfortunate but I think you should behave this week and not raise any hell. (not that I thought you were going to) You probably a marked man no matter how unfairly.

TransAmBison
09-14-2007, 02:07 PM
A trusted source of mine at the Dome has informed me that in order to keep Herd Mentality in line at future games they will give Bisonguy's tickets to 02Bison, so that 02Bison can have decent TEAMMAKER seats and punish all fun-seakers while not actually having to give any money to the program. Everybody wins.

Bison bison
09-14-2007, 02:25 PM
I disagree with the idea of a special section for 'super fans'.

I think that they should (in general) be placed closer to the field in whatever section they align. This would serve as a 'reward' for their added energy and put them in front of the 'living dead' as an example of what a good time is.

Concentrating fans in one section would only decrease the energy in other parts of the building...

Gully
09-14-2007, 02:50 PM
Good letter from Herd Mentality and a pretty classy response from the FFD. I say it's time to move on and focus on what should be a very entertaining game on Saturday.

TransAmBison
09-14-2007, 02:55 PM
Good letter from Herd Mentality and a pretty classy response from the FFD. I say it's time to move on and focus on what should be a very entertaining game on Saturday.
Sorry, just trying to have a little fun. :(

Yo
09-14-2007, 05:19 PM
Yo--what Row are you in?

Section 17 Row A

bisongirl
09-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Section 17 Row A

I was just curious. We are also Section 17, but we are row AA--it's hard to get 8 seats together!

Gully
09-15-2007, 02:57 AM
Sorry, just trying to have a little fun. :(

Hey trans am, I wasn't directing my note to you...just thinking it would be nice to hear more about the game and less about nipple piercing, etc. Sounds like another great crowd will be on hand and I predict a huge tailgating day.